Discipline Vs Punishment – A pup’s perspective
I’m often asked how should a pup be punished, I generally respond how would you punish your own K9 Companion. I would hope you would not hit or kick your own biological dog. However human pups are a little different, they can enter into agreement and negotiation on the types of play and training they would like to undertake.
Just as your biological dog, human pups all have their own unique personalities and desires and therefore punishment or discipline needs to be catered to each individual human pup.
In short, the quick answer is that punishment should fit the crime……. but human pup’s also requires positive reinforcement when the pup does what is required correctly, and if its not up to standard, sometimes corrective action, example showing the pup how to do set task in the correct manner, may be needed. Corrective action could also include some corrective actions such as withholding time spent with their Sir/Mistress or some prodding in the right direction such as physical correction such as cropping, branding, shocks, etc. but this should not be seen as punishment and when the pup gets the said task correct this must be followed up with positive reinforcement.
From my perspective and this I have found true with many other pups and submissives, is the one thing a pup can beat himself up the most about is when he knows that they have disappointed their Sir, Master or Owner. You may not have to do anything to the pup, expect show displeasure. The human pup is loyal and only wishes to please in a happy pup kind of way. Whether the pup is being boisterous or bouncing around or making a show of himself, he deep down knows that he is there to please his Owner/ Master / Sir or Handler. In many cases a frown, glare or showing your displeasure with the pup should at most times be enough to bring him back into line. But this also needs to be followed up with positive reinforcement – such as a scratch, a pat, belly rubs or a pup (human friendly) treat. Even a “good boy” can go a long way when defining what is expected of the pup.
As stated by Ms Velvet,
“Of course, everyone has a different view, don’t assume that my explanations below are a universal truth…..there is no “one true way”, no rules and no official body policing them. This is just how it works for me…”
This is so true in any perspective and it is always interesting to hear other views on topics, especially this one. I also appreciate that Discipline and Punishment can be different from the type of submissive, and can be handled differently by Dominants.
Context: Let’s firstly remember that we are talking about consensual adult activities and relationships here, this may include the notion of consensual non-consent – thus providing appropriate negotiations have occurred between the parties involved.
– I’d be very interested in your comments on how your views differ from mine – please post a comment at the end of this post.
Pup Play: Whist pup play is a form of BDSM in particular BD / DS dynamic, some pups also get into SM. This may not be the same for all pups, for example my pup space (pup head-space) is very different from my sub space or even boy space. Without blurring the lines, my pup head-space is very different, I do not get flogged or get into heavy forms of BDSM play when in my pup headspace or mode, Even though I identify as a pup, I also have my boy space or sub space where whist I am identify as a pup I am not in my pup headspace when experiencing heavier BDSM activities.
Example If I was to break down my BDSM component of myself I would say that my pup self is about 30% of me, then theirs my Switch or Dominant / Alpha self about 15%, then my sub self about 20% and boyish self 15%, and sexual self 20%. This makes u a holistic approach to me as a being or entity (my BDSM lifestyle has become a huge part of my self and relationships I would say at least 50% of my make up, the other parts would include professional / community ./ sport / spiritual / gender identity and family. And many of these may cross over from time to time.
It should be noted a pup can not be in pup mode 24/7, it is unsafe to do so and not possible, however I can identify as a pup 24/7.
As previously mentioned, as a pup I am eager to please my Handler / Sir / Master / Owner (For the record I have never been owned.) And pups should be naturally playful, and it should be no surprise even a little disobedient in comparison to other forms of submissive’s, and may be viewed by some in the leather / BDSM lifestyles as a bratty sub.
So a frown, glare or the notion I have disappointed you, will generally be enough to pull me back into line, however for other pups this will depend on how much training your pup has received. Just like a biological puppy, you need to teach your pup the commands, posture and positions you would like him/her to understand, this is best done through positive reinforcement. (I will be doing another post latter on this topic)
Once your human pup knows the basics, even some party tricks, then the training can begin. And depending on the play types you wish to explore with your pup will depend on the types of discipline that is required.
D/s Dynamics – I regard this as a fun, pleasurable activity – something I can do with a Handler(s) or Sir / Master, This is where I want to please you, and submit to my Handlers / Sir’s desires and needs. As a pup I am naturally loyal and protective of my Handler / Sir and will want to please, be trained, follow direction and do tasks that I am set or trained to do. This is the advantages of a Human Pup – We can do much more then a biological Puppy.
In Human mode with a pup identity, pups can generally submit with a cheeky smile and push the boundaries, and get into mischief; to many experienced Dom’s this can appear to be the sub not following direction (pups are not slaves unless this has been negotiated between the parties and you want your pup to be a slave pup or a police / military style dog). This is when boundaries, and structure is set for the type of pup you want and what the pup can expect and what you expect from the pup, very similar to a transaction.
- Once again there is no one set way or rule to do things, this is where the parties involved sort this out and what is best for their own D/s Dynamic. I can only speak from my perspective and experiences.
Reflection on experience:
What makes me submit immediately, I find there are 6 ways, and I am cautious about putting this up here because I do not like letting Doms know this, as I feel it should be part of the fun and training is exploring this together. This should be what is done between a Dom and a sub, as they explore what makes each other tick and whether the D/s relationship is right for them.
- A stern hand on my head whist in a sit, kneel or present position. This is showing me you have control, but you care for me and have my interests at heart.
- Cause I am into Anal play, just going near my ass will ensure immediate submission
- Restrained by rope: I may choose to struggle to make it fun.
- In pup mode I have been trained to know who my handler is and whilst I may push a boundary, I also am eager to please (as previously mentioned), so know my commands and positions will tell me who is in control, and what direction I should be following. Keep in mind shock collars can be heaps of fun.
- Grab me by the hair and I will submit immediately
- Throw a protocol at me that I can understand in conversation, now a Dom that knows mean and one that I choose to submit for would have had conversations with me, and will know how their pup thinks and ticks, so with me, remind me of protocols, if I’m out of line and you will have a very submissive boy / pup knelling at your side.
S&M play – I regard this as a fun, pleasurable activity – something I can do with my Dominant, however I may not be in a pup type of mode when doing these activities, this is to protect the pup. All pups are different and some may not want anything to do with flogging. However I love flogging, electrodes and exploring boundaries, this will be done with the boy space or sub space, and at times the pup may wish to experience some activities. Once again this is all about consent and negotiation your needs as a sub with the needs and desires of the Dom.
As a pup in play I love to be spanked, I enjoy a good wrestle. However to complicate things even more I have two pup spaces, one is all about pup headspace and it’s about being a pup, there is nothing overly sexual with this. My other pup self is a sexual pup. Basically one is for public and the other is both public and the bedroom.
S&M play will also vary on experience levels of the players and also what the parties wish to explore, I love to explore and look for my Dom to do this with me. But I also have limits that, with any form of BD / SM play needs to be respected, as a sub I am given you my gift of trust, and we are creating a bond that is sacred. In return you are the beholder and the keeper of my trust and sanctuary, and I give myself to you. I trust that the pleasure I am about to receive, will also provide you the pleasure of giving it to me, and taking me to limits and boundaries and also watching me squirm and submit to your desires, in order to please you. I also want to have my boundaries explored and pushed and this can only be done with a Dom that I have trust and respect for, as submission is important to me and the bond that is forged with a Dom and a sub is beautiful, unique and special, and should never be taken for granted by either party.
Perspective from Ms Velvet:
For me the dynamic and the mindset are not one of punishment for transgressions – other than in a fun “role-playing” kind of way. SM play has nothing to do with punishment and nor should it. But if there is a role-play dynamic in place, it might be what I refer to as “Funishment”. Or it’s just about the sensations. S&M play can, in my world, be given as a reward, can be just because I want it, but is never about punishment.
As a pup, punishment can be denial of submission, being sat in a corner or a designated place to consider actions, or being ignored, punishment can be a rolled up newspaper or something I do not like, under the agreed terms of the D/s. An example of this is at this stage I can not stand being pissed on, this could be a form of punishment. The dis-pleasurable feelings that I experience when I know that I have not met your desires or expectations or my behaviour or actions have displeased a Dom. I want to fix this and make it right. It may be writing to the Dom about hat has happened, with what lessons have been learned. Punishment needs to be delivered quickly, without delay, for pups I believe with in 12 hours of the punishable act or within a time frame when the Dom is made aware of poor behaviour. As a pup, I feel I need to be aware of what I being punished for.
On another perspective some Doms feel that if a submissive needs to be punished, this may indicate that there is something very wrong in the relationship. I find that many Dom’s expectation is that their sub has chosen to serve, therefore he/she WILL serve and obey to the very best of his/her ability. If he/she no longer feels obedient and willing to serve and obey the Dom, then a serious discussion about the future of the relationship is required. If the action was deliberate or rebellious, and if no solution can be found, or is welcomed, then the only courses of action that should be taken is either to ignore him/her, to deny contact or deny the submissive his/her submission for a set period or release the submissive from their agreement /collar. Ms Velvet states that, “really the only punishment I might contemplate is denial of the opportunity to submit.” (This was taken from 50 shades of BDSM from Ms Velvet) This is her perspective and once again the type of sub that I believe Ms Velvet has is that of a submissive slave. Source: 50 shades of BDSM
Pups are naturally little different as it should be natural pup trait to push some boundaries, but when the pup goes to far the above is in order; I encourage an open communication platform between both Handler/Master/Sir and pup. Discuss what has occurred, and find the punishment that fits the crime, it could be that the pup submits and does something that he does not like, but the Dom does. It can be removal of his favorite toys for an agreed time, it may be setting him a task or even a rolled up newspaper can work. However what ever the punishment is, do not make this part of the pleasure of BD or SM play, as it will soon not be a punishment or the play will not be pleasurable.
Just the other day I upset a friend, who is a respectable Dom in our community, I was wrong in what I did, and offered an apology. My punishment was swift, I was left to think what I had done, until the Dom was ready to inform me, this was done with in 4 hours. I then had time to reply to his discussion (this was done online) He was pleased that I took time to consider, instead of replying immediately. Knowing that I had disappointed him was terrible, I needed to show him that I was sorry and not just that be had learned the valuable lesson. The Dom ensured I knew what was required. I also know he knows some of the activities that I do not like, and that may be future discipline for my appalling behaviour. But the message that I received had it desired impact. It made me think, but also allowed me space to lean, develop and have an understanding of what it was that I did to disappoint. At the same time he placed a clear boundary on me for future corrective action, I was required in my learning to aknowlede my understanding of the set boundary and to agree to it. The choice was mine to make, I feel that I made the correct choice. It was a good lesson.
Discipline – I am firm believer that Discipline is a large part of BDSM it is fundamental to the core principals of the three aspects of B&D – D/s – S&M. To me Discipline is what drives me in my BDSM experience. When I do not complete a task correctly or become a little mischievous or even bratty, then corrective behaviour – discipline is what is required. These can be that firm hand on the head, a tap with a cane or riding crop; too being Sat on my pup mat to wait for instructions or even a delayed gratification.
Pups seek clear boundaries, and when there are none, pups will run riot, that is the core and nature of a pup. Pups require the servitude of the 3 s’s – Stability, Strictness and Structure. We also seek the warmth of our Handlers/Sirs or Masters (depending on the title of which the Dom wishes to be referred too), touch and bond that connects us. we like to be lead and given direction even when we are naughty, corrective behaviour works well, we learn when its ok to chase the ball, when its not ok to be on the lounge, when it is time to be respectful and when we can or can not be boisterous etc.
We learn set positions or commands, and we perform each task to our ability, we aim to please, and there may be times that through discipline that prodding or cropping is required to pull us back in line. This extra training a pup requires to understand their task and goals is required to nurture our journeys, and to become the best pup one can become and a good submissive.
From a Dom’s perspective – once again I am directly quoting Ms Velvet who has a marvelous blog at 50 shade of BDSM, please see her link below.
“ahhh but discipline is different. Nobody is perfect; all submissives make mistakes, especially when learning a new task, or a new Dominant. If the mistake was not a deliberate one, then clearer instructions or further training may be required, and the most effective training usually has some disciplinary action involved to help the sub learn how to do better – and as a reminder that I am the boss, and it has to be done the way I want, even if it’s not the best way……..yep, sometimes Dominants are wrong too 🙂 For example, a smart tap of the riding crop to the derriere of a sub scrubbing the floor will remind him/her to employ a little more vigour, or to go back and fix the spot missed.”
In short the two main differences are Punishment must fit the crime and is when a deliberate act of defiance occurs, where discipline is all part of the training a submissive pup is required to undergo as part of their BDSM / leather journey. And don’t forget to reward for good behaviour – positive reinforcement always helps a pup with their training.
Now this is one thing that I like, Some Dominants use preventative discipline too – a regular spanking can help the sub retain the mental discipline required to keep in line. Pups should also get regularly training and tasks set to keep them in that metal sub midset. A pup after all is the sub in a D/s relationship.
I also acknowledge that pups are new to the BDSM scene, whist many have been around for some time, in only recently that we have really become accepted, and we many feel pups have changed the rules of play and even challenged them, we are the fun loving subs that are little cheeky and playful, we offer a very different type of servitude then say a slave, boi, butler or maid We offer similar principals as a biological K9, which is companionship, loyalty and gratitude for being under a Dom training and guiding hand.
I stress that this is based on my perspective and experience, and just like any sub no one pup is the same, and nor should they, as a Dom you may want a cheeky little pup, or you may decide to train your pup as an Alpha, a police style dog or a military dog, your pup may also be trained as a working dog or a show dog, its your training that will help shape how your pup responds and behaves, you, the Dom are the boss and in Charge, and any pup they does not want is not a pup that wishes to follow the core principals of BDSM
Note: The D/s relationship I refer to is that which involves a Handler/Sir/Master/Mistress and pup. The dynamic will be very different in say a pack, or a pup and pup relationship. In a pup and pup relationship, one pup would be the alpha, and take on a leading role.
Final word on Discipline Once again this is being directly quoted form Ms Velvet, as it is well worded:
If my sub kept on making the same mistakes, though, I would think that either their mind or heart was not focused on the task of serving me, and that we need to have a discussion.
it might be possible that a sub continually making mistakes simply enjoys the discipline meted out, and acts up in order to get some “play”. This is manipulation of the Dominant in order to get something he/she wants – or in some cases it might be something he/she needs – eg more attention. This kind of bratty behaviour might be referred to as “topping from the bottom”, or there might be a core need not being met. Communication is the key to find out whether there’s something that needs to be fixed, or if the submission is simply not there at all.
How would you deal with a bratty sub?
Reflection: I get accused of topping from the bottom regularly, I generally do this with inexperienced Dom’s, I know why I do this to get what I want, However from an experienced Dom, I would be less tempted to even try this, and if I did I could only expect to be disciplined and reminded of my place as a sub and a pup.
Invitations: I would love to hear from other Dom’s and sub’s on their experience’s and perspectives, I do not expect you all to agree with me, in fact debate is healthy as it helps shapes views and when done in a positive and respectful manner, can help a sub on their journey. I do not know who will read this post, but I do hope that maybe I have helped them and if someone who may not hold the same view shares their perspective it may help me on my journey.
Ms Velvet – 50 Shades of BDSM